Station Eleven - TV Series Pandemic Special

Transcript of Station Eleven TV Miniseries Special

Lori 0:12

Hello.

Amy 0:13

Hi!

Haley 0:13

Howdy.

Amy 0:14

Kevin?

Kevin 0:15

Hello. <all laugh>

Lori 0:16

Special guest! Welcome to another pandemic special episode of Hugo, Girl! the podcast. (Amy: Two years of pandemic!) (Haley: Two years.) Yeah, we're NOT celebrating (Amy: commemorating?) - marking.

Haley 0:31

We've just decided in America that the pandemic is over.

Amy 0:33

We're addressing it.

Lori 0:34

We watched Station Eleven. And some listeners may know, and if you're new, here's some news. In 2020, we read Station Eleven. And we recorded a Social Distancing Special, when we still thought it was "15 days to flatten the curve." And one of our nice listeners, Benjamin, listened to that episode recently, and described it as an "amazing historical artifact."

Amy

It really was. I tried to listen to it. I couldn't get past where we were like, "I'm so excited for the Zoom birthday that we're about to have!"

Lori

Oh my god.

Haley 1:10

And then we just stopped having Zoom birthdays because it was like, "Oh, I hate this." <laughter>

Kevin 1:15

I just went to a Zoom public defender meeting today. And I just don't know how we've done two years of Zoom. And there's still always someone who's not muted and interrupts the entire thing.

Amy 1:26

Oh, Kevin. I was a hair's breadth away from flushing the toilet <laughter> while my mic was on during a work call. The other day, I had my little wireless earbuds in. And I was going about my life. While the meeting was going, I was listening. And had sort of meandered over to the bathroom. And I was like, wait a moment, let me double check this. I was like, pants were - like my waistband was in my hands. I was like, let me go check that real quick.

Kevin 1:57

I always use my laptop that has physical kill switches for the microphone and camera.<Haley laughs>

Amy 2:01

Physical kill switches.

Lori 2:03

So, I am used to using Zoom. And when you sign on to Zoom, usually, it's automatically muted when you sign in. And I'm used to that, I got little spoiled. I had a meeting a couple of weeks ago on Teams, which is by far the worst meeting platform. (Amy: Oh, we use that a lot of work.) Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. So basically the people who had sent me the meeting request were late. And they had originally done it as a conference call. And they weren't answering the conference call. And then I got on the the WebEx. I mean, sorry - I got on the Teams link and they weren't there. And I was getting increasingly frustrated. And then as I was signing in, it was like "waiting for the host to admit you" and I was like, "Still?!!" And I said out loud, "this is fucking ridiculous." And then I realized, I was in the Teams meeting. (Amy: Oh noooo!) Yeah. And I was like, Well it's okay, I'm muted. And I was not muted. (Haley: Oh, NO.) So, guess what, everybody - Teams? It doesn't mute you upon entry. (Amy: I know that, I know that now.) And the people I was meeting with if they heard me - maybe they didn't. (Haley and Amy: Maybe they didn't!) They didn't say anything.

Amy

Maybe they didn't think you were talking about that. You could have spilled some coffee on your pants and been like, "this is fucking ridiculous!"

Lori

Completely. Maybe I had 11 children biting my ankles. (Amy: You don't know. It could have been anything.) But two years into the pandemic - warning: Teams does not automatically mute you.

Haley 3:33

One time, I farted really loudly while I was muted. And then it was like, "Do you want to unmute, are you talking?" It detected sound and it was like, "Haley, do you want to unmute?" No, I don't want to unmute!! I am lucky that it wasn't OFF mute!

Lori 3:49

Honestly, that alert is reassuring because then you know no one heard it!

Haley 3:53

Because sometimes - whew, it could have been bad.

Amy 3:57

Bless.

Lori 3:57

Alright, this show. What do you think about this show guys?

Amy 4:01

I really liked it. I thought there was moments where it went a little bit off the rails in some ways, but for the most part, I really really liked it.

Haley 4:10

I thought it was beautiful. And I loved it.

Lori 4:13

<whispers> I...kind of hated it.

Kevin 4:15

I don't want to say it's terrible because obviously people like it, but for me it was terrible. I would have stopped after the second episode if we were not doing the podcast.

Haley 4:24

Second episode? Damn!

Amy 4:24

That's how I felt about Ringworld!

Lori 4:26

Yeah, even after the first episode. I was like, Ohhhh...

Amy 4:29

What didn't you like about it?

Lori 4:31

So, how much time do you have?

Amy 4:33

Other people want to talk, Lori. <laughter>

Lori 4:35

Well, you asked! So that's why I checked. So here's the thing. I didn't only hate it. I thought there were parts of it that were really good. There were things about it that I really liked. There were scenes that I thought were really beautiful. But overall I don't want to be the, "the book was better" person. But I felt like Emily wrote a good story. And that made sense for the most part, and I felt like a lot of the stuff in the show just didn't make sense. And I was okay with condensing the storylines, like all that makes sense, to save space for television. I thought that was fine. And I liked combining the Jeevan and Kirsten storylines. But I just thought so many things just didn't make a lot of sense. And like from episode one - so Jeevan (in the book) runs up on the stage to help Arthur because he's in paramedic training. Right? And in the show, there's no reason that he did that. And it doesn't fit with his character because he's so deeply anxious and like, not confident and worried about everything. And had he had the requisite training to recognize a heart attack and act. That would still make sense.

Amy 5:41

But does he not mention that he's a paramedic, in the show?

Lori 5:44

No, dude!

Haley 5:45

But that doesn't preclude it though.

Amy 5:46

I thought he did.

Lori 5:47

It doesn't preclude it, but it doesn't make sense with his character. Why is he the person?

Haley 5:50

But he goes on to become a doctor, though. I feel like it makes sense.

Kevin 5:53

Yeah, but not really. And even at the time, the guy says - the actual paramedic - is like, "do you know CPR," and he's just like, "No," and backs away. And then the meeting with Kirsten is really kind of weird and creepy, because he's just like, "hey, little girl," I'll go talk to you, as opposed to - I will say, I don't remember a lot of details of the book. I remember that they're kind of like, shuffled off together. And were just kind of like, happen to be there. And were like, "hey." "Hey."

Amy 6:19

I guess with his character for me, it's like, he's this person who has this very big urge to be a caregiver, but he's got a lot of anxiety and self doubt. And so a lot of what he does comes off very awkward and like, and not well thought out, because he's got these impulses, but he doesn't quite know like, how to follow through on them well, and he doesn't trust himself, and he doesn't like himself. So it's like, so a lot of what he did I read in that context, and so it made less creepy to me.

Haley 6:44

I mean, I think you have to lay aside any notions of creepiness. Whenever a man character hangs out with a child. I mean, you just have to, and like, even in the last episode, I was like, Are they gonna kiss? Please don't.

Lori 6:55

I was worried about it. I was a little worried about it. I wasn't REALLY worried about it, but it coulda happened.

Amy 7:02

I was crying buckets.

Haley 7:04

I cried three times last episode.

Lori 7:07

So I thought that the confusion in the first episode, of course, I wouldn't have had it had I not read the book and known that he had been in paramedic school. But I thought I would still wonder like, why did he do this? So when we found out that he had a sister who was a doctor, who did not exist in the book, I kept waiting for her to say something about like "my cruddy brother Jeevan, who dropped out of med school after a semester," just something like one line like that would have sort of retroactively made all of that make sense. And I just thought it would have been so easy to make it make more sense. And they chose not to do it for some reason.

Haley 7:41

I'm intrigued that you even thought about it. I didn't even remember that he was supposed to be a paramedic. I was just like, he's just, he was just concerned.

Amy 7:46

I just I think since I knew he was a paramedic, or had been a paramedic in the book. I just assumed he was in the show. And so I sort of glossed it over in my mind, so I think I didn't even catch that. They never even mentioned it. I think that part didn't make doesn't make sense when you put it that way. The other part that doesn't make a lot of sense to me is that David Cross's character -

Lori 8:04

Oh, yeah, you can just call him Tobias Funke.

Amy 8:07

The never nude. I'm just assuming, like the Vulture recaps he she mentions that to her, he'll always be wearing denim shorts, under whatever costume. But um, his character gets killed in this really violent, awful way. And they never talk about like, oh, like they just sort of. It's just fine.

Lori 8:25

Yeah, that was another big issue that I had, where I keep saying that it didn't make sense. That didn't make sense. And it didn't make sense to me. - after reading some of the Vulture recaps, I understood why Kirsten chose to later on go with the Prophet because she felt like "this is the only way I can find my family." But then she becomes really aligned with him. And no one is ever like, "he murdered Tobias Funke and those little kids." So in reading about this, I was super confused about it. I thought maybe it's me. And so I did some googling. And I found a Reddit thread where it says the Prophet said someone else did it. And that goes back to blaming Kirsten. So she stabbed him. He was out of commission. So he says, "I lost control of the story. And Haley had them do that." Who's Haley?! The dirty little girl at the end!

Amy

Haley is the one she gives the book to at the end!

Lori

It's Haley slander! But so I just thought like, he said that it wasn't him. But why do we believe him? And also if you're the one who gave the 10 year olds a bag full of landmines, whatever they do with them is ultimately your fault, sir. (Amy: yes.)

Kevin 9:35

And going back to the early things that don't make sense, she seems amazed that she - because she had her like giant butcher knife, her K-bar, wilderness knife like at his throat, (Amy: her K bar wilderness knife, everyone) and then stabbed him with her like tiny little backup knife in the stomach and then was like, amazedthat he didn't die?

Amy 9:53

Like she stabbed him in his adipose, and was like, why didn't he die from that?

Haley 9:57

I don't know, in a wold with no antibiotics.

Amy 9:59

Fair.

Lori 9:59

Well, I think he should have died, I was surprised when when she found him in that little tower, and he like looked clean. And his wound was just like kind of pink. And I kept wondering, why is he so clean and all those children are like fresh from the mud bath?

Haley 10:15

Y'all ever seen a kid? They're pretty dirty.

Amy 10:18

He actually might care about keeping himself clean and they just don't.

Lori 10:21

Those are his child soldiers. He should have them take a bath.

Amy 10:24

But they're all "post-pans," as they call them in the show. So like they may not - their sense of cleanliness and whatnot and hygiene and what to do for society is very different than someone who has actually lived in previous times, I think.

Lori 10:34

He's their weird cult leader uncle daddy, he's got to teach them to rinse off.

Amy 10:38

He should but he didn't, Lori. <laughter>

Lori 10:41

No one wants to set off land mine while they're dirty. Won't you be embarrassed when the paramedics arrive? Didn't your mother tell you put on clean underwear just in case you end up blowing up a land mine on Tobias Funke?

Haley 10:53

Yeah, you know, so, I say this a lot. And I mean it. I am bad at TV. Like I don't watch TV like you guys watch TV. And I don't have a lot of critical thoughts about it. Usually, like I usually just get a feel for something. And I liked the way that it was shot. I liked the characters a lot. I liked spending time with them. I didn't really analyze their motives to too hard.

Amy 11:14

I was the same. I really love the show. I wish we'd gotten a little more of Jeevan's storyline.

Haley 11:21

I love that he became a doctor too.

Kevin 11:24

Yeah, I mean, there are a lot of things I watched that I'm willing to forgive a lot of plotholes and things. Like a lot of times when we like, watch Doctor Who or something and Lori's like, "Why does that make sense?" I'm like, "I don't know. Just go with it." <laughter> (Amy: Shhhh!) Because yeah, if I like the characters, if I like the setting, if I like the story that it's telling, I'll overlook some of these plot holes. But I didn't like most of the acting. Again, I don't remember the details. I remember really liking Kirsten in the book. And in the show, she's just like, walking around everywhere looking confused with her mouth open going, "No, we can't do that!"

Amy 12:00

She is very, she is very, like resistant to have anything happen, I guess in the book, but I didn't find her wildly different than the book character. (Haley: Yes.) Um, I don't know. Every all the characters seemed pretty much to be the book characters to me. I like the acting.

Haley 12:18

Yeah, I read the book twice. And I can never remember what happens in it.

Amy 12:21

That little girl did an amazing job. The baby Kirsten. Yeah, she was good. (All agreeing: she was good, she was good.)

Lori 12:25

I also liked the acting. And I liked - watching the show, I went back and listened to the audiobook at speed. So I didn't like in depth listen to it. But I listened to it at like one and a half speed. And I got the gist. And the show helped me sort of look back at the memory issues that Kirsten has. Because when we were first watching it, and we first saw adult Kirsten, and she said something about Jeevan and "my little brother Frank." And I was like, why did she lie. And then when I went back, and I started listening, and she had so much memory loss from right after the pandemic happened. And I thought it was very interesting. At that point, I realized she's not lying. That in her mind, the space where "little brother" is, is filled with Frank, because he was Jeevan's little brother. And so I thought that was really interesting. I did like the performances, I liked Jeevan a lot, even though I was annoyed that they just didn't throw in one line for his medical interests or medical knowledge. Because that's something I like about the book, how he goes from a partially trained EMT to being a doctor. And I like that arc for him. (Amy: Which make sense, too.) I'm a little frustrated that they took away just like that little detail that would have made the whole arc make more sense and sort of feel like a full circle for him. (Amy: Yeah.) Especially, it would have really been even more effective because the sister was the doctor. The brother was the Pulitzer Prize winning author, like these are very high achieving siblings, and he's the one who like couldn't make it, you know, didn't make it. And then through the end of this, he's the one who survives and comes out a doctor, so I feel like that was really an opportunity area.

Kevin 14:01

I shouldn't say I didn't like any of the acting I liked - (Amy: Well, you already said it, Kevin!) - Jeevan. But (Lori: yeah, no take backs.) Mostly just not Mackenzie Davis, and I guess since she's supposed to be like the anchor character for us. It kind of tained the rest of...

Haley 14:05

I loved her.

Amy 14:16

I loved her too!

Haley 14:18

She's great. She's great in Halt and Catch fire. She's great in the Terminator.

Amy 14:21

She was great in that one with Kristen Stewart.

Haley 14:22

That gay movie, right? I love anything that woman does.

Lori 14:25

I liked her. I thought she did a good job of embodying somebody who's deeply traumatized. She's in survival mode constantly, which will bring me to another moment where I thought she doesn't - well, it doesn't make any sense to me how she decided to trust the Prophet when like, she hears a leaf fall in the forest and her reaction is to spin around and start throwing knives. <Amy laughs> And then he's like, "help me sneak into this facility where all your friends are" and she's like, "okay!"

Haley 14:53

Because she said like, point blank. She's like, the only thing that matters is my family and she'll do anything to get there.

Lori 14:59

Yeah, but she could Just kill him once they got there.

Amy 15:01

Yeah, I didn't get quite why she didn't kill him when they got there, or why she didn't just give him over to them.

Lori 15:06

Yeah, and say, "he's a murderer, he's not really an actor!" They just that whole scene!

Amy 15:10

I think she might be concerned that there's the murderous children lurking around and that if she does something that you know, they might do something.

Haley 15:16

That was also hanging over the head that if he goes missing then, like they commit war on them, so I think like, she was stuck in this like hard place. And also I think, in a life where 99% of humanity has been destroyed, it's hard to even kill a murderer probably. I mean - (Lori: she's already killed people.) Well, yeah. But like, what's another one?

Amy 15:31

See, I disagree. I think life is very cheap in this world, like because they don't care about Tobias Funke's death AT ALL (Haley: well, on screen.)

Lori 15:39

And he was like their uncle. (Amy: I know.)

Kevin 15:42

They had that like mourning scene, when they're all getting drunk. And so they kind of at least addressed that.

Amy 15:48

I guess. Yeah, I guess.

Lori 15:50

I guess. I thought they they dealt somewhat with his death, but not the fact that it was a murder of him and at least two maybe three very dirty children. Those children became very dirty very fast.

Amy 16:01

I mean, I guess you get used to crazy people doing crazy things in this world. So maybe it just doesn't like resonate as much.

Haley 16:07

I think he's also very charming like a lot of like, cult leaders tend to be maybe so I don't know.

Amy 16:11

He is very Charles Manson to me.

Haley 16:12

I mean, I don't love that they hung out. But like, I'm not like staying up at night thinking about it either.

Amy 16:16

He was also traumatized. Let's not forget.

Haley 16:18

Oh, yeah, no, he was deeply, deeply traumatized.

Lori 16:20

But counterpoint to life being cheap. How many times does Kirsten go sailing off after that little monster Alexandra. Listen, please let her die.

Haley 16:31

She loves her.

Lori 16:32

I don't care. She's awful. And she's a grown woman. If she wants to run away with a cult leader and be his weird teen bride, she can do that.

Amy 16:39

Everybody seems so like, stunted in a way. Like she's 20. In theory, she's about 20 or 18 or something.

Haley 16:46

But she raised her though.

Amy 16:47

Well, I was gonna say that, you know, part of what her obnoxiousness is, Alex's, you know, obnoxious ways of being part of what that is, is just sort of just teenage rebellion. But I feel like she's old enough that she maybe should have gotten that out of her system by the time we got to where we are in the story, but I mean - (Haley:she didn't go to school.) Yeah, she's like, she's just stunted.

Lori 17:07

She fully shifts alliances like, however the wind blows, like, I'm going to run away with the Prophet. Then I didn't run away with the Prophet because I'm so bad at riding my horse that I fell off my horse. And so now I'm back with my family. And now I'm mad at Kirsten because Kirsten went camping with the Prophet. And now I'm going to give the Prophet a hunting knife to kill his mom on stage. I was like, Whoa, buddy!

Amy 17:31

Oh, I don't think she thought he was gonna kill her.

Lori 17:33

What??! What else would he do with a big knife?

Amy 17:36

He was Hamlet. He needed a knife.

Lori 17:39

I mean, surely they have non lethal props that they give to known murderers?

Haley 17:45

It probably doesn't come up a lot.

Kevin 17:47

I don't know Hamlet that well, but everyone seemed shocked when he had a weapon. So I don't think that was part of the scene.

Amy 17:52

That's true. I thought it was supposed to be like a, uh, yeah, that- I guess now that I think about it, that doesn't make a lot of sense.

Kevin 17:57

And also within that episode, as far as switching alliances she went from, I want to stay here for at least a year to riding off with the Prophet. Yeah, that's true.

Amy 18:06

That's true. Apparently, she also really loved Elizabeth. And then if you're right, then she gave gave him knife to kill her, like in the same day.

Lori 18:13

And she rode off on Kirsten's horse, Luly.

Amy 18:17

Kirsten must have given it to her.

Lori 18:19

She's a horsethief.

Amy 18:19

I think that was probably - she gave it to her. (Lori: Maybe.) Speaking of Jeevan's journey, can we talk about the birthing center? <Lori gasps> I was not ready! There's a whole birth in that show! <laughter>

Lori 18:37

Amy, that episode, I thought that that episode was ludicrous. And also I liked it. I thought both of those things. I liked it. But I was like, This is ludicrous. From the moment the doctor was like, all these women are prenatally synchronized. And I was like, no, no, that's not a thing!

Amy 18:53

Everybody's a little crazy.

Lori 18:56

But she's a doctor!

Amy 18:56

Doctors can be crazy!

Lori 18:58

But she was RIGHT! <Amy laughs> They DID all have their babies in Housewares at the same time!

Amy 19:05

Except for that one that apparently had a C-section.

Haley 19:07

You know, I bet there was a baby boom, like the first week or two that society started to crumble. People were just fuckin.

Lori 19:13

Well, it's funny, she mentioned that and then was like, but that's not true. It did not happen. Like in the previous historical event that she referred to and she's like, people always talk about the baby boom, and it didn't happen. But she didn't say "they're all due at the same time." She said, "they're prenatally synchronized," and I was like, if you hang out with your pregnant friend, I don't think it makes your baby's brain develop faster. Like I don't think that's the thing.

Haley 19:34

Maybe it just means they're all nine months pregnant.

Amy 19:37

I like Jeevan walking around with Grey's Anatomy, like that particular book is going to help you in any way during childbirth.

Lori 19:42

So funny. But I did like that episode, and the scene that you're talking about, Amy, I really I was like, Jeevan and this woman are like, doctor/patient vibing, like it was so emotional and it was like scary and intense and he was finally rising to an occasion. And I was like, "Oh, this is beautiful kind of," and then I was like, "oh, there's a whole rupturing vagina!" (Amy: It didn't RUPTURE!) And I screamed, I screamed, and I hid my face. And then I immediately felt like a misogynist. I felt very bad about my reaction. <laughter>

Amy 20:17

No, it's a lot! I mean, I was cross stitching while I was watching.

Lori 20:23

<laughs> Did you punch a hole in your fabric??

Amy 20:26

So I was like, I was looking down at my little cross stitch, and I was looking up and Jeevan was talking to the woman being very supportive and doing wonderful. And I looked down and put a stitch in and then I looked up and there was a vagina. <laughter> It was the craziest thing I'd ever seen!

Kevin 20:40

You just don't like body stuff. It's okay!

Amy 20:42

It's a little body horror. Even people who have given birth and love their children would say it's a little body horror.

Lori 20:48

Yeah, I just like, I can't help but think about myself.

Haley 20:52

Oh, yeah, of course!

Amy 20:53

If you have vagina, it's going to resonate with you.

Haley 20:55

Its okay to be like, "that would be uncomfortable." <laughter>

Lori 20:58

It looked so uncomfortable. And then I was like, Was that real? Did they like cut in footage from The Miracle of Life, you know? Was that real? Is it a prosthetic? What? What was it? I don't know. I don't know because guess what - I looked away immediately!

Amy 21:11

In my mind, it's some sort of practical effect where they like shoved a fake baby through a fake vagina and made it look real.

Haley 21:19

Because honestly, in real life, it's probably more traumatic than what we saw. There's probably blood.

Lori 21:23

There's poop!

Amy 21:23

Yeah, there's poop. There's blood. There's liquids coming out.

Lori 21:26

Trigger warning.

Amy 21:28

There's a whole sac around the baby that has to break.

Lori 21:31

That has to come out! I said the same thing. Well, I said too, you have to, I think you have to, like pass an afterbirth after you have a baby. So like, they would catch the baby. And then she'd be like, "Peace!" and walk away. Oh, and I love the one where the one woman was having twins. And they hand off the first twin to the woman who ends up Jeevan's wife or partner. And then they're like, "we're good. You can go." And I was like, but who's gonna catch the second one? Like, you can't catch a baby while you're already holding?

Amy 21:57

She gave the first baby to Jeevan.

Haley 21:59

Yeah. And then another pregnant lady came up and was like, I'll help you.

Lori 22:03

He gave it back. Oh, yeah. Cuz he started to get up and walk away. And it was funny. She was like, "Jeevan, the baby." And he's like, "Oh, yeah." And he hands the baby back. And then she's like, "I got the next one." And I was like, she's quite a catcher, I guess.

Amy 22:16

I mean, I guess you can catch a baby.

Haley 22:18

In some civilizations, you give birth squatting. Like that's like a more natural way to do it.

Amy 22:21

In THIS civilization, you do that sometimes.

Lori 22:22

Well, most of them are in beds, which I thought was kind of surprising. Oh, but I like how they had - they were a full service birthing center because you could give birth in a wading pool if you wanted to <laughter>. You could give birth in a bed, you could die in childbirth in a bed. You could give birth, just in Housewares squatting like the lady who had the twins. In a Ross. <laughter> It wasn't a Ross, it was a TJ Maxx. (Amy: Something like that!)

Haley 22:45

So part of why I like the show so much. Like yes, there are things that don't make sense. I guess that's true. But so I spent the Fourth of July 2020, playing two video games, The Last of Us one and The Last of Us two, which is a video game set in the post apocalypse. You know, there's a mushroom zombie type thing that happens and like, you get to spend so much time in formerly spaces that were you know, museums that have been overtaken by nature. And like you get to scavenge for food and look for, you know, alcohol to clean your wounds with when you're hunting zombies. And so like, it just gave me such good reminiscences I'm playing the video game and that video game was being adapted to a live action show, which is coming out in the next year or two, probably.

Amy 23:22

I've heard a lot of good things about that game.

Haley 23:24

The game is so fun. I I've tried playing it again, just because I want to recapture it. And you can never play the same game the same way. But uh, so I think part of my love for the show just stems from like, what I know is coming with The Last of Us TV series, so.

Amy 23:35

I purchased a PlayStation and played it twice. That was one of the things I thought I would do with my pandemic. Speaking of, recapping the pandemic here in our two year anniversary episode. I bought a PlayStation and played it twice. The problem is, both times I played it, I played it for six hours. And I was like, I can't do this. <laughter>

Haley 23:56

I play in spurts. There's a video game coming out sometime this year called Stray where you're like a cat living in like a cyberpunk future. And you just go on adventures. (Lori: that sounds fun.) And that's an orange cat too. So I look forward to that. But I've been in a little bit of a slump playing games recently. So.

Amy 24:10

I'd like to try again. But I need a full day where I don't have to do anything. <laughter>

Kevin 24:15

If you like mischievous animals, Untitled Goose Game is good.

Amy 24:19

That's on the PlayStation.

Haley 24:20

Yeah, that was fun.

Lori 24:21

That was very fun to watch. I'm not a video game player but I enjoyed watching Kevin be rude goose.

Haley 24:29

I liked all of the costumes in this movie. So at one point they're doing Hamlet and there's this entire cape made of golf gloves.

Lori 24:36

I loved it. I did love that.

Amy 24:38

The play stuff is very cool.

Haley 24:41

Well yeah, and like so much, I think I would enjoy this show and book more if I knew more about theater because like Emily Mandel's a theatre gal and like, so much of it is about the importance of theater and I literally never go see plays, so I feel like a lot of it's lost on me probably, but.

Amy 24:54

Yeah, I get it, I get it. You know, I don't understand why. Well, they talked about it in the show, but I don't quite understand why they would only do Shakespeare, but I hate Shakespeare...

Haley 25:02

I think because it's easy to get, but. Well, you hate Shakespeare. I love Shakespeare. This has like inspired me to go to Shakespeare Tavern again. But um, because it's timeless, it's universal even though you hate it. It's been performed for 600 years. So.

Lori 25:12

I will say that the show - I did like all the play scenes, I loved the costumes. I did. I agree with you that I thought it was beautifully shot, especially the cutaway scenes where plants had overtaken the cities. I thought they were really beautiful. And I also think that the show gave me maybe more of an appreciation for Hamlet, because it is really the first time I've seen it performed where they spoke slowly enough that I could really understand because Shakespeare performance is usually so fast, and to hear them actually talking. And to have the backdrop where like, this whole relationship has been set up with the, you know, I don't really think she's wicked, but the sort of wickedly positioned mother and the friend of the father/brother of the father who's now the mom's kind of life partner, not like that. But you know, they, they have a partnership as leaders at the airport. So all of that kind of helped inform it. And then when I was watching it, I was like, Oh, I get what's going on. And I think I previously - I mean, I've read Hamlet, and I've seen Hamlet - but I really felt like I understood it better watching it like this. So that was a good thing.

Amy 26:13

I agree. I and I, I liked it more watching this. I didn't have to sit through all of Hamlet, so that probably helped. But I did enjoy the the play scenes, even though it was Shakespeare.

Haley 26:24

Yeah, like I'm trying to think of other plays that would survive the apocalypse that everybody would want to see. And like. I dunno, Iceman Cometh. I don't know like, Shakespeare's universal.

Lori 26:34

And I think at that point, it's like you want anything. You want any entertainment.

Amy 26:39

It's gonna be Hamilton.

Haley 26:40

Hamilton!

Lori 26:41

Hamleton, the mashup.

Haley 26:43

Oh, can I just tour doing Hamilton? That would be great.

Amy 26:46

Did you guys - so the book ended, I felt like the book ended on this sort of optimistic note. Did you guys get a feeling of optimism from the show?

Lori 26:55

Yeah.

Haley 26:56

Life goes on. Yeah.

Kevin 26:59

I got a feeling of happiness that we didn't have to watch it anymore. <laughter> Cuz I also thought the final episode was full of really hitting you over the head with the theme and things that didn't make sense. <Amy laughs>

Lori 27:19

I did also feel sort of hit over the head with the theme but I enjoyed the play scene, and I enjoyed the costumes, but it was like, really Clark as Claudius? Okay. And, and also, I was like, Clark just got like, third degree burns yesterday. <laughter> He's like, I'm going to get up and be in the play!

Amy 27:34

Clark was ridiculous to me.

Lori 27:36

Well, and I really liked Clark in the book (Amy: I did too!) He does the half shave, which obviously speaks to me, he shaves half his head, he puts on his little scarf. And he's like - (Amy: finally himself.) I'm about to go be the Clark I've always wanted to be and not the corporate world Clark. And this Clark. Well, it was very silly when he was like, we can't perform Hamlet. What if the children get ideas about rebelling? And I was like, sir.

Amy 27:56

Yeah, he was sort of comically that guy by the end.

Haley 27:59

Well but you have to be though, life is, they have to keep everything like. Like, they had that hallway of the years. And like, if they lose four kids, that's like an electrical engineer they don't get you know, like, it's.

Amy 28:11

I mean, I get the impulse. I do. And I don't know if he should - I don't see him as like just this like purely villainous character. (Lori: Not at all.) But he was much harder to like in the show than he was in the book.

Haley 28:23

I don't remember him from the book at all.

Lori 28:24

I just thought it was a little cartoonish for him to be like, "the children can't see Hamlet. Yeah, they'll start thinking about stuff." I was just like, really? And then all of a sudden, he's like, "I have to be Claudius." (Haley: But he played Claudius. So it makes sense.) But he didn't even want it to like be on and then what was it when he found out that Tyler/ David was going to be Hamlet, then he wanted to be Claudius. And I was like, Well, you just really want to make this very on the nose, I guess. (Amy: Yeah, it was very on the nose.) But I enjoyed the scene. Even though I thought like the lead up to it was goofy. I liked the scene. I thought it was well acted. The costumes were beautiful. The lighting is beautiful, since you don't have any, like overhead lighting in most of these scenes, the natural light or the candlelight is really beautiful.

Amy 29:07

There was one time they were sitting around and there was like full sunlight coming in one of the windows in the Severn City airport, and they were sitting there with candles on the table. And I was like, Why? Why are they doing that? They're wasting their candles in the daytime.

Lori 29:19

Yeah...Well, oh, let's talk about the neverending Zippo lighter.

Amy 29:22

Oh, yeah. Where, WHERE, Lori? Where did he get that fuel?

Lori 29:26

And apparently, that kind of gas evaporates. <Amy laughs> So it's not even like we only saw him flicking it, but the remainder of the 20 years, he wasn't flicking it. Like if he's been carrying it around that whole time - go ahead, Kevin.

Kevin

I was just going to say yeah, if you leave that in your pocket for like, a week or less, it all evaporates and you have to refill it.

Amy 29:45

Really?

Kevin 29:45

Yeah.

Lori 29:48

That's why he's got all these little kids. They're carrying his backup butane. <Amy laughs>

Amy 29:51

Maybe for 20 years, all he did was hoard butane.

Lori 29:54

Is it butane?

Kevin 29:55

No, it's actually a liquid fuel and there's cotton batting inside the Zippo. You soak the cotton batting, and the fuel goes up the wick, which is why it just like goes up the wick and evaporates.

Amy 30:08

Interesting!

Lori 30:09

Science!

Amy 30:10

Well, somebody didn't have a Zippo consultant on this show. I don't know how you couldn't have cried during the last episode when Miranda called Hugo, in the plane. I thought that was very moving.

Lori 30:23

I'm gonna sit back and let Kevin take that.

Kevin 30:26

That's yeah. When Miranda's friend was like, Oh, the FAA site updated and here's the pilot's name and just look up his personal fuckin' phone number.

Amy 30:36

They're logistics people! That's what they do.

Kevin 30:39

I don't think logistics gets you FAA records of pilots. And their personal phone numbers from whoiscalling.com

Amy 30:47

You don't know! Are you a logistics person?

Lori 30:50

When he said he his name was Hugo after Hurricane Hugo. I laughed out loud. I was like, you don't have to make everything a flat circle. I mean, a lot of things - like, we've already had enough intersections in this story. That was a bridge too far.

Kevin 31:04

Yeah. And I had already read recaps of all the episodes to be like, is this going to get better? So I knew she was gonna call him, and I was like, This is gonna be ridiculous. And also lock the doors and don't let them out. You can't lock airplane doors! <Amy laughs>

Lori 31:18

Oh, now, I didn't know that.

Amy 31:20

Yeah, well, you're supposed to able to open them in an emergency.

Lori 31:22

Oh, yeah! All right. I'm just I never considered breaking out of or imprisoning anyone.

Amy 31:27

I think she was speaking euphemistically.

Kevin 31:29

I'm sure she was, that's like - the point being that -

Amy 31:32

The point being Kevin's gonna take it literally.

Haley 31:33

And that he has fact-checked, the show couldn't happen.

Amy 31:37

This could never happen.

Kevin 31:38

Had a violent anti-masker been like, "No, I'm getting off!" He could have just popped the emergency slide.

Amy 31:45

Somebody did get off as we know, so they didn't really lock the doors.

Lori 31:48

And now that we know how people act in this situation, The Gitchegumee Air would have had an exodus after about 90 minutes.

Amy 31:56

Unless they were already dying.

Lori 31:58

Yeah, and the people who were still standing would have been out of there.

Kevin 32:03

I guess my point being her talking to the pilot was both not really possible and did not have any effect on the outcome of the situation. So it was just like purely emotional manipulation.

Amy 32:15

I thought it was possible given their jobs, they are definitely implied over and over and over again, that these this is what they do. They have connections, these people with these airlines and like what, blah, blah, blah. And also, what do you mean, it didn't have an effect on the situation?

Kevin 32:29

Because nothing she did would prevent anyone from getting off the plane.

Amy 32:36

She had to convince the pilot,

Haley 32:37

Even if they had still gotten out, I still would have cried because she was trying her best to save the people she loved in that place.

Lori 32:43

And I will push back on that a little like, you know, I thought it was as silly as you did. But I think what he did, you know, you can't physically lock them in, but he comes over the intercom and he's like, "gonna be just a little bit longer folks." And so that, you know, he's kind of like mollifying people, like, "we'll come around with the beverage cart," and it's gonna be like, a couple more hours knowing that like, probably, we're all just gonna die in that time period. And then I won't have to, like, physically keep people in. I do wonder why that one guy took so long to stagger out. I mean, it had been days. But yeah, I think I think that was -

Haley

Probably because there's a 99% death rate, so he was probably the only one that lived past the day or two.

Lori

I just wonder why he didn't come out sooner.

Haley 33:22

Also, counterpoint. Kevin. What was the last show that emotionally impressed you?

Kevin 33:30

Oh, uh, Squid Game.

Amy 33:32

Oh, I didn't get past episode three. I liked the three episodes I watched.

Haley 33:37

Oh yeah, I refuse to watch that. <laughter> I have no desire to watch that.

Kevin 33:39

Yeah, I started crying during the dice...Dice? Was it dice? No, no.

Lori 33:45

Kevin 33:45

The one with Old Sir??

Lori 33:46

Ohhh, that. Yeah, yeah.

Amy 33:48

I only watched through the cookie one? Where they have to lick, he licks the cookie.

Haley 33:53

I just don't want to watch a movie where people kill each other. <laughs>

Amy 33:56

That's fair. That's fair.

Lori 33:57

Well, you don't have to.

Haley 33:59

Yeah, no, I don't. I'm sorry y'all had to watch this. If y'all hated it so much! <laughs>

Amy 34:04

I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility. I mean, we, you know, want the part of our show from before the two years ago show that I did listen to it was like, we talked about good things from the pandemic, you know, before we get started talking about the book, and we have seen that people have the capacity to be really obnoxious assholes. And people also have the capacity to be truly selfless and do things that help others. So I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that even if the plane did figure out what was going on, they would have stayed put. I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility.

Kevin 34:32

I guess part is like I read an interview with the showrunner and he kept saying things like, Well, we made this change from the book because that's just good TV and this because this is just good TV and a lot of things felt like it came from the angle of what's going to make "good TV," versus what's going to tell a good story. And actually, like come together in a satisfying way.

Amy 34:54

That is frustrating.

Lori 34:55

I loved the airport episode. The first full - it was like episode five, I think maybe, the one that was fully in the airport. I liked that one a lot. I think the thing that was frustrating to me about the show is that I felt that it was either so good, or the opposite. Yeah. And I would almost rather watch like a show that I felt like was just meh. But when it had like, these strong moments, I'd be like, alright, you know, sometimes a show starts a little weaker, and then it gets stronger, you stay with it, and it gets better. And I just felt like within the course of one episode, there would be things that made me like, UGH, and kind of like facepalm. And then there will be moments where I was, like, about to cry. And so it was kind of a roller coaster of good and bad. And like I said, I didn't hate it. But overall, I would say I didn't enjoy the show, but it had moments that I thought were great. So it's confusing.

Amy 35:51

I didn't always love hanging out with Kirsten. She was, it was difficult sometimes.

Haley 35:56

I loved every single minute.

Kevin 35:58

I did love the part where Jeevan gets attacked by the wolf and it's clearly someone from off camera throwing a giant wolf dummy at him. <laughter>

Lori 36:06

Also, wolves don't really attack people. Like that's an unfair wolf stereotype. It is, it is! Like a wild wolf is usually gonna like run away and hide from you, isn't it? Isn't that true?

Amy 36:17

Who knows what happens in a post-apocalyptic world?

Lori 36:20

I mean, I feel like that wolf doesn't have to contend with like, traffic and like scarcity. I feel like in the post apocalypse, the wolves are, nature is gonna do what it needs to do is heal. (Amy: Nature is healing!) Yeah, totally! And I just don't think that like eating Jeevan is part of healing. But

Amy 36:37

I will say, this is something just popped in my head. It's not really but if you guys get a chance, you should go online and find the the person who put together the Station Eleven graphic novel in the book, posted all the pages on Twitter. And they're beautiful. Like she did a really, really good job.

Lori 36:54

I would like to watch a show about, like, of the graphic novel. (Amy: Yeah!)

Haley 36:59

I liked when the the characters were dead, they would see Doctor Eleven.

Amy 37:03

Yeah, I think it was like, what was it the vulture thing where she was like, it makes them feel calm, or like it makes them feel -

Haley 37:09

Well, and I like that. There's a lot of time you spend with the dead characters and like them talking to them, whether they're on screen or not. They're just like, because at one point like, I think when Frank was dying, Jeevanis just like, screaming to his sister. Like he's still just talking to her.

Amy 37:21

Yeah. So I'm going to link the, the graphic novel pages in our notes. It's worth checking out. Right.

Lori 37:28

Great! I love when Jeevan looks at Station Eleven is like, "You're so pretentious!" <laughter>

Haley 37:36

So part so watching the show has inspired me to start writing again, which I've not done in a long time. Because there's one point where, you know, they lose the power, and they're like, in a high rise in Chicago in the winter, and it's fucking cold as shit. And they're probably down to just eating like canned food, and there's just like, frozen a can of beans.

Lori 37:50

I love it. Because that's how beans come out, like, a big poop.

Haley 37:54

It's like, my joy of this movie, or the show was like these little tiny moments. Like, I also don't think critically about anything that I watched. That's what I like, almost every movie. Yeah, so um, but like, there's just like little those little glimpses into like, what life would be and how things are structured. Like even when the world's falling apart and Jeevan goes and gets three grocery carts worth of food, like that is. I did that like March 12th last year. I woke up at 5:30 early, I still have powdered milk that has now expired.

Amy 38:19

I have a lot of pictures of me in the grocery store, like looking at empty shelves and like freaking out and like other stuff.

Lori 38:25

Remember how Jeevan's total at the grocery store was $9,000. <Amy laughs> Kevin did the math and he was like, a shopping cart is like $1,600.

Amy 38:34

That checks out?

Lori 38:35

No, it doesn't! Not unless it was like all whiskey.

Haley 38:38

But also guys - who cares?? <laughs>

Lori 38:40

I mean, it was like it was like, spaghetti and Lucky Charms. There was some liquor in there.

Haley 38:44

What if it was Whole Foods?

Amy 38:46

It was not Whole Foods, and you know it.

Lori 38:45

Nine THOUSAND dollars?? NO.

Haley 38:50

I didn't even notice that.

Lori 38:52

I mean, I'm happy for him. I guess in that situation. You're like, "yep, charge it! Bill me later!"

Haley 38:58

I think after Episode One, y'all were keeping an area list of like, "fake!"

Lori 39:04

Yeah??

Amy 39:05

Which is what I do with most of the books we read.

Kevin 39:07

That's the thing, I mean, there were things I liked about it, but there are just enough like plot contrivances or things that didn't make sense that just like immediately stripped away all the parts I liked. Like I liked the flashback episode. For the most part, like where you see the three of them in the apartment, and like right before they leave where Frank gets killed, except for like, I would have loved just a regular flashback episode, but the plot contrivance of it's like Kirsten going back and reliving it yet she knows what happened when she was not there.

Amy 39:39

I thought about that too. That how do you know what happened?

Kevin 39:42

That pulled me out of it. So it's like the bad things kind of eclipsed the good things for me a lot of time.

Amy 39:50

But also it's a fake Kirsten, she's not there.

Haley 39:53

Yeah, I thought it was cool because she was watching like it was harming her staying, like she was getting more poisoned up the arm and she was just like, I have to leave.

Kevin 39:59

Yeah, and we're supposed to like - there's nothing to indicate that this is her imagining what happened. Like we're supposed to take it as this is what happened.

Amy 40:11

Yeah, but I didn't ever feel like we were watching it through her eyes. So I guess it didn't bother me that they had her present. But I also thought about that when I was watching the show was like she wasn't in the room. So why? Yeah.

Kevin 40:25

And from the first episode as a Canadian, it bothered me that they filmed in Ontario, but set the show in Chicago, and it was supposed to be in Toronto. It was supposed to be in Toronto. They filmed it in Mississauga, and like around Toronto anyway, they could have just kept it in Toronto.

Amy 40:40

Why did they put it in Chicago?

Haley 40:41

Probably because it was cheaper.

Amy 40:43

They did not have the rights to the word "Toronto?" <laughter>

Lori 40:46

Part of the book apparently does take place in Chicago, which I didn't remember.

Amy 40:50

Who knows? He obviously just made choices to make choices.

Haley 40:54

How dare he make a choice? <Haley laughs>

Amy 40:56

I mean, I don't love the idea that someone would make choices for impact rather than story.

Haley 41:02

What? No, but that's like all of modern TV. Come on.

Amy 41:04

Yeah. But you still want it to make sense in the context of the universe you're creating, right?

Haley 41:08

I guess. I mean, but like, think about every TV show, like why is there during sweeps week, a gay kiss? Why is there like rape on Game of Thrones?

Amy 41:14

I'm not saying you never have to make good TV. That's not necessarily what I'm saying. But if you make those choices - like it's okay to make a choice, if it's impactful and it makes sense.

Haley 41:22

It's almost like TV is meant to make money. <Haley laughs>

Amy 41:25

I'm not mad about dramatic. I like drama, like drama. I like impact. I like to be swept along emotionally. I mean, every Steven Spielberg movie ever made is like, he knows exactly how to make a movie to hit your emotions. But, but I think that I'm going to speak for you. I'm sorry. I think the issue is that he was making these choices. And it didn't make sense in the universe. Right? So like it wasn't coherent internally, which is a problem.

Kevin 41:50

Yeah. And I was trying to think of like, what adaptations I do like, and I'm sure there are a lot but that the two that sprang to mind are Watchmen, HBO Watchmen - not the Zack Snyder movie - the HBO Watchmen. That was a really great continuation of the characters that got the themes of the comic and the way that Zack Snyder did not at all. (Amy: that movie was so bad.) And it was emotionally affecting. It made sense internally, even though there were like, things that like the lube alien guy was never really well - I guess it was explained kind of explained at the end. That was the other - (Lori: Lube alien??!) Yeah, the guy in the silver suit, who would like spray lube all over himself and then slide into storm drains. (Lori: Jesus Christ, I loved Watchmen, and I don't know what you're talking about!) <laughter> So yes, I thought that was a great adaptation. And Lovecraft Country was very different from the book, but I thought that made very good - they're, they're very big differences, but they're done very well to suit the characters, the overall story, the themes, and it was emotionally well done, too.

Amy 42:57

Did you get mad at the end of Game of Thrones?

Haley 43:00

No. I don't get mad at anything, though. Like, I literally like almost everything

Lori 43:05

Well, you don't like most of the books we read, though.

Haley 43:09

Yeah. <laughter> It's, it's, it's different with movies. I like almost every movie. So.

Amy 43:16

I honestly - I'm kind of the same. I can usually find something to love in every movie that I watch. I'm more critical with books for whatever reason.

Haley 43:21

And I don't have books, I just don't love 'em. Like, I don't know. This one's just hard because I really really love the show, and y'all hate it. <Haley laughs>

Amy 43:29

I didn't hate it! I loved it. I loved it. I'm just engaging their points.

Lori 43:34

I'm like so hot and cold with it. Like the stuff that I didn't like I really, really didn't like and the stuff they did I really, really liked. And the problem for me is that the stuff that I found nonsensical, I thought had pretty simple, or simple narrative solutions. So that was frustrating to me that I felt like a lot of the stuff would have been kind of easy to handle differently or treat differently just a little bit and that would have made it make more sense. And so that was just frustrating for me that I thought they were so close to something really good.

Amy 44:06

I wonder if there was some editing, like I wonder if there was some explanation that got cut out. Like as an incidental, maybe. (Lori: Maybe!)

Kevin 44:13

Wasn't some of the production halted by COVID?

Amy 44:16

Ahh! They forgot! Oh, what if there's a there's an episode missing?!

Lori 44:22

That's so meta.

Haley 44:23

I don't think that would fix it for them.

Kevin 44:24

Yeah, it really was. If it was just like more - if it was worse overall, I probably would have liked it more. <laughter> Or yeah, cuz it yeah, it's it's there's enough good stuff there that it's just really frustrating when they tank it.

Lori 44:40

It could just be like campy and garbage and that would be fun too. But it's not. It has a lot of good stuff in it.

Amy 44:47

It took itself very seriously. So it can't have that.

Lori 44:48

It really took itself seriously.

Haley 44:51

One of my favorite movies was Titanic. So.

Amy 44:53

I love Titanic, unironically. So I'm with you.

Haley 44:56

Yeah, no, I like it anytime an orchestra swells I like -

Amy 44:59

Oh yeah. Girl, I'll cry at the drop of a hat.

Haley 45:01

I like anything that deals with like, time and lost loves. I love that shit. So.

Amy 45:05

Selflessness always gets me.

Haley 45:07

I've also never figured out the end to any movie or book we've ever read. I just like live in the moment like a goldfish with stuff. And I just liked being in this world.

Lori 45:15

Oh, when he blew up - when I said to Kevin, I said, "he's gonna blow up that airport." And Kevin goes, "Nahh," I said, "he's gonna use his Sega Genesis to blow up the airport." <Haley laughs> And Kevin was like, "No, he's not." And like five minutes later, the Museum of Civilization blew up. And Kevin was like, "WHAT?!"

Kevin 45:32

Well, because the last time you see him up there, he's just like hiding his Atari Lynx (not a Sega Genesis)

Lori 45:37

I know, I just picked a console that I knew! <Kevin laughs>

Kevin 45:44

But like, where did he get the detonator? Where did he get fuel? How did he program, like he programmed the detonation countdown to look like the swirl from the cover of the graphic novel, which is cool, but it's like - (Amy: How'd he do that?) How did he do all of this over like, what - yeah, the entire - he was only gone long enough for Kirsten to go find Sarah. And -

Lori 46:09

I also wondered how all the children got so close to the airport when they had like snipers and razor wire and whatnot.

Amy 46:15

That ain't right. Because he was - so he hid the thing, right? And then they sort of captured him, but he could clearly get out whenever he wanted. And so he had been running around before he went to get her. So there wasn't, that's a little wrong.

Kevin 46:28

That's true.

Haley 46:29

I also think that if there were technical answers to this, you still wouldn't like it. <laughter>

Kevin 46:36

Like it, you know, like, I thought it was weird that he had this magic German satellite Wikipedia machine in the first place. And then that he can also turn it into a detonator...

Amy 46:50

He had - they'd stolen so many landmines at that point that he could have just like, I don't know if he had any of the landmines because he's implying that only Haley and the children have them. But he could easily have just thrown a landmine in there.

Kevin 47:00

There were so many intricate flashbacks that they could have like intercut how it happened. (Amy: Yeah.) They're just like, no, you just blew up the tower.

Lori 47:07

Cuz he got arrested immediately. When they got there. They let Kristin out with the symphony and immediately took him into custody, because I think they kind of recognized him. And so I thought didn't they like, check him for explosives like, as on top of things and is like, controlling as they were? I was like, how did he get explosives in there? And then all the kids pop up in the field. And I was like, How did that even happen? Because they've got their perimeter or they've got snipers and stuff, don't they?

Kevin 47:35

And then the kids just stay there for two days.

Lori 47:37

Oh, yeah. And then the kids. Like, (Amy: They don't do anything!) Haley's the only one who shows up with her beacons in her messenger bag. And I was like, Well, where are the other ones? Like how do we tell them to stand down?

Amy 47:47

And there are like, thousands, as they walk off into the sunset.

Lori 47:50

Those kids were spooky.

Amy 47:52

They were spooky.

Haley 47:53

I love the conductor. She was my favorite part.

Lori 47:55

Oh, I screamed with happiness when I saw Lori Petty. I was so happy to see her. Oh, okay. Things that made me scream with happiness. Lori Petty and armpit hair. I was so happy about the armpit hair but then that got dialed back a little bit when Kirsten wore that wet bathing suit for so long. I was like, there's no women. No women were - no one with a vagina was consulted on this scene because we know we can't just walk around in a wet bathing suit.

Amy 48:20

You gotta take your bathing suit off when you have the opportunity to do it. So everything dries, and you put on some clean dry underwear.

Lori 48:24

Everyone always looks so damp. Like they were always wearing like soft sneakers and running through puddles. And I was like, oh my god, everyone has athlete's foot. Everyone has a yeast infection. <Amy laughs> Everyone itches everywhere. You know, it's like, good for them that they're having sex all the time. Like I'm totally fine with that. But also like (Haley: there's no birth control.) There's no birth control. You can't get cleaned up.

Amy 48:44

There's no birth control. How are those people having sex all the time not just having babies left and right?

Haley 48:48

I think at that point, once humanity is like decimated you want to have babies, I guess we're not like working nine to five jobs being independent women.

Lori 48:55

Well yeah, I didn't understand why everyone wasn't pregnant. Only the we saw the friend Charlie who's also on Letterkenny who Kirsten was so mean to for not wanting to have her baby in the back of a horse drawn van. <Haley laughs> She was so mean. And I understand that Kirsten has these major abandonment issues. And I was like, I just don't think you can be this selfish in the apocalypse.

Amy 49:17

She was being very selfish.

Haley 49:18

To me, the only thing that didn't make sense about the show was if it was the apocalypse, I would not stay in the north. It's - (Lori: Oh yeah, let's all head south.) <Amy laughs> Yeah, we're going to Florida where we can grow food year round and not live in fucking Chicago; Michigan. Are you kidding me? Upper peninsula. No.

Lori 49:32

Yeah, I think there was an opportunity to show more of how they ate.

Haley 49:37

I mean, that's what inspired me to start writing. So.

Amy 49:40

Ate, stayed warm. Because we see them the symphony we only see them in the warm weather. I wanna know what they did in the winter.

Haley 49:46

Yeah no, that was interesting too, because like, you know, in Michigan, it snows from like October to May. So it's like, you get three months. (Amy: it only doesn't snow in July.) So I would definitely would've hightailed it south.

Lori 49:57

Why do you think that Miranda's boss gave her the secret boat stuff inside a Le Crueset pot?

Amy 50:04

So that nobody would care about looking in it.

Haley 50:07

Yeah. So like, if she got searched going somewhere they wouldn't look in like, a pot.

Lori 50:10

She would just be like, "This is my casserole. <laughter> I've got a nice chowder, don't worry about it."

Amy 50:16

Unknown. Those aren't cheap. So I don't know whether there was just one laying around.

Haley 50:23

I love the part where he was like, "you're going to be at sea for a year." Whew! If ,if she had made it on the boat, that would have sucked.

Lori 50:30

But she would have survived, theoretically, if the boat remained insulated, then she would have survived. (Haley: Yeah, yeah.) I was a little mad at her (Amy: Her falling down?) um, her arc. With being so attached to Arthur, still, I thought that did not make sense with the beginning of their relationship. Because they didn't - they didn't seem to really get to know each other. Like, we find out later that she was fluent in Spanish and understood his conversations, but like, he didn't know that his wife spoke Spanish. And I was like, what did they talk about?

Amy 51:01

I know, they had a very weird relationship.

Lori 51:04

So I was puzzled that, you know, 20 years later, she's like, I left my love, and he died! And like, I thought the thing that was, it was, again, with the things that I like, and the things that I don't like, her speech was so good. And her acting was so good when she was in that meeting, and she was like, none of this fucking matters. Like my my partner, the person I want to spend my life with is dead. And we're all gonna die and I hate you. And it was really good, but I was also like, she feels this way about him?! I found it surprising.

Amy

I think you can feel very connected and love someone a lot. Even if your relationship is fraught.

Lori

I just don't, I didn't believe in their relationship. Like they got married very quickly. He didn't know anything about her when they were married. So it just seemed to me like - (Amy: she was very closed off) - an "oops," first marriage.

Haley 51:50

And I think when the world's ending she has the idea like maybe I can reconcile. I think it's like when like a 19 year old guy gets married before he goes off to join the Marine Corps. Like I just want something to think about and believe in. (Lori: Maybe. I don't know.) I mean, I think part of the problem was I did not like Gael Garcia Bernal. I don't think he's charming in this. I don't think - (Lori: Oh, is that Arthur?) Yeah, like that's like Arthur to me was like this like classically trained actor and this guy just seemed like kind of like, like a B-lister.

Lori 52:17

He seemed a little young too. I imagined Arthur is a bit older.

Haley 52:21

Yeah, I mean, this guy was like, at least 50. But like, he seemed younger. So.

Amy 52:26

He's got that perpetually youthful face.

Lori 52:27

I guess that is how you be famous. You have a perpetually young face.

Haley 52:32

Yeah, I just didn't like him in the role.

Lori 52:34

So a couple other things. Like she burned down the pool house. And then like, Lori Petty SHOT Tobias Funke because he cheated on her. <Amy laughs> And I was just like, the I understand that we're going to have like, a lot of lawlessness and violence in the post apocalypse. (Amy: The pool house happened before the apocalypse!) Totally! And but it was like, (Amy: women can't control themselves.) these terrible - well, yeah, yeah. And I didn't like that whole like stereotype of the jilted woman burning down the pool house and then also like, she burned down her entire body of work. And I thought, you know, that's I guess that's like the the smashing the mirror symbolism or something, you know. I don't know, but I just was like, wow, this really sucks and is not okay. And then like, Lori Petty shooting Gil? I thought, you can't just shoot somebody! You don't have antibiotics. Like, you know, in the book, Kristen's brother died because he like stepped on a nail or something. And so I was like, I even feel like Kirsten's tattoos are like, ehhhhh, you know, a stick and poke tattoo in the forest in the apocalypse is like, maybe not the best idea. So, you know, I just didn't - I was very bothered by the sort of light treatment of this domestic violence.

Amy 53:44

Yeah, no, I and also, Miranda burning down. I think it's when you said Miranda burned down the poolhouse and burned her life's work. She has a lot of cognitive dissonance around that work. But, she knows that it's harmful in a way to her to be so obsessed with it. But also she can't stop, you know, so I could see her sort of, I guess that made sense to me. Like it was a destructive thing to do. But also I understand why she wouldn't...

Lori

I get what you're saying. Yeah, no, I mean, I get that. (Amy: it's a half-formed thought.) But that's a, definitely a sensible way to see it, I think.

Amy

But I also am full of apologetics for the show for some reason

Lori 54:26

We're sitting across the table from each other. Andersons on one side. Blonde ladies on the other side. It's brown hairs versus blonde hairs.

Amy 54:35

That's right. I don't know guys, would you survive this particular apocalypse?

Lori 54:39

Nope. I have my same answer that I had two years ago.

Amy 54:43

Nope. Well, we survived the one we were in.

Haley 54:45

That's because I got to work from home, in my living room.

Amy 54:48

We're very good at isolating.

Haley 54:50

That's true.

Amy 54:50

We wore our masks.

Lori 54:51

I mean, I've had all the electricity and fake meats that I need to survive. Like, I've been very fortunate. So - and also, let us not pretend that this is over.

Amy 55:02

Fair.

Haley 55:03

It's over in America! Like everywhere I drive. It's like "dining room's back open, come on in!" "Masks off, y'all!"

Lori 55:09

It is so weird.

Amy 55:10

I'm assuming that since we've all had COVID and didn't know it, that if this flu came along, we would be the one in 1000 that didn't die.

Lori 55:18

Oh, yeah??

Haley 55:19

I don't know.

Amy 55:21

I want to live in that professor house on the golf course. Where they're eating MREs. And playing golf. And, and discussing philosophy.

Lori 55:31

I'd be happy in the airport. They have electricity, they had flushing toilets!

Haley 55:35

Thank god for Miles!

Lori 55:35

Guess where you're not getting a yeast infection?! The Severn City airport!!

Amy 55:39

I mean, I mean, What's-her-toes had the best hair.

Lori 55:42

Oh my gosh, she transitioned to post-apocalyptic resort chic SO smoothly. <Amy laughs>

Amy 55:49

She really did!

Lori 55:50

She was like, I'm gonna take this emergency blanket and put a belt around it. She looked perfect.

Amy 55:57

That's right. She went off into the woods with his dirty children and her Jesus son and I just don't think she's gonna look like that out there. I don't think she's gonna look like that in a year.

Lori 56:02

I didn't feel good about it. I didn't feel good about it for her. Was she gonna be mother to all those little mercenary babies? (Amy: I guess so.) Also how is he - is his Plan B, he's going to untrain them to be murderers? Like how - what's the way forward?

Amy 56:05

I don't know. I guess we need that second season.

Lori 56:19

I know what I don't want. I was just about to say, I prefer to wonder.

Amy 56:23

I prefer to wonder, too. I don't think this one needs another season.

Haley 56:25

Oh, no. It's a limited series. We would not make y'all watch it. But I think y'all should watch The Last of Us, which will be good. (Amy: I probably will.) It's good. It's got like a like a buddy cop with a man and a girl kind of like this. But um, it's so good.

Amy 56:43

Good job, guys. We talked for an hour about this.

Lori 56:46

Yeah. I think we were going for like 30 minutes. All right. Bye!

All 56:50

Bye!

Amy 57:07

That movie is so good. I will go see that again.

Lori 57:08

The Batman?

Amy 57:11

It's VERY long.

Lori 57:11

Robert Battinson?